Satyr (cain_iii) wrote in art_of_debate,

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Hey! I want some more debate dammit!

No one out there has anything to discuss? Bah! I am certain there are juicy tidbits out there just waiting to be tossed around.

Well, as far as this last post about the pro-choice movement keeping down women of color, I think that is a load of crap. (in my opinion) The problem here is a lack of education and access to information so as to make an informed opinion. Yes, a part of that has to do with their poverty, but a greater portion sits squarely on their values (which again, is affected by their socio-economic position, yes, I know). But, I do not feel as though neither the pro-choice or the pro-life movements are fighting to keep the "colored folks down."

I believe the author has some interesting arguments that are great for sparking discussions, but her conclusions are flawed.

On prisons: yes, I believe that the current prison system is vastly flawed. This idea about rehabilatation is a buncha crap. Prisons are there nearly for pure punishment. Granted, there are resources available to get some education in prison, but the entire system is formulated in such a way as to impede their return to society as "rehabilitated" individuals. Harder to get jobs, social stigma,etc...etc. But most of all, not enough social programs to help the masses get along. That, and crime pays better. It has no retirement plan, and has a high attrition rate, but it definately pays better. That being said, I don't have a much better idea at the moment. We have a social contract (I know you didn't officially agree with it Derwolf, but your continued presence under its purviews is a tacit agreement) and those that break said contract should suffer consequences. I realize that prison isn't a cake walk, but I do not believe that anyone in prison should be privy to rights/privleges that EVERY free, law-abiding citizen in the country do not have access to. I realize that I am moving into a different discussion, so I will make this quick....Until we have taken care of the homeless situation and elevated poverty to the level where everyone gets a daily meal and a warm bed, no one in prison should get one. No pansy ass pandering to white collar criminals either. You broke the law. Plain and simple. Suffer the consequences.
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well, i have tried everything i could think of, but i can't seem to post to AoD. so i sent it to all my friends, including you.
dude....i still don't see a post from you at all.....:s
i just got it!
Sooo I have no idea what y'all are talking about...
See comment to master_spector.
I agree with you that while there is no active movement to keep women of color to access these options, there is a fundamental problem with women of color having access and knowledge to such an option.

I also think that "it's their values" to a point is bull. It is often used as an excuse to not do anything about it and place blame back on the people who are, and I hate using this word, victims of the situation.

Let's be frank, when dealing with a women's right to choose we should present and make accessible every option. If their "values" hinder their option then that's their fault but to do preemptive denial of such presentations and access based on what you perceive to be their values is bull.

Most of the women's movement, as far as body sovergnity and other reproductive rights, has been led mostly by white, middle class women, who, when got those marginal rights, backed down and forgot about women of color.

On the flip side of that coin, because there is so much cultural, educational and social difference between that and women of color, especially poor women of color, than the first two waves of feminism I can see why WoC weren't rallying at the gates to be let in on those movements at the time they were happening. (I mean when you juxtapose cultural identity against any other identity I've found that most people choose their cultural background first and foremost, everything else falls second.)

The recent third wave of feminism is trying very hard to incorporate women of color and women from lower or less advantaged socio-economic backgrounds to work towards equality for all women, not just the ones that are marketable to policy makers and politicians.

Although I didn't read the article I agree with what the sentiment was of it. There may not be an active, present force hindering the inclusion and education of women of color in the reproductive rights movement there definitely is an a historical and passive force.